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Poster: Olo Date: Nov 29, 2005 10:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Last Update: November 30, 2005
An Announcement from Phil Lesh:

It was brought to my attention that all of the Grateful Dead shows were
taken down from Archive.org right before Thanksgiving. I was not part of
this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be
pulled. I do feel that the music is the Grateful Dead's legacy and I hope
that one way or another all of it is available for those who want it . I
have enjoyed using Archive.org and found it invaluable during the writing of
my book. I found myself being pulled back in time listening to old Grateful
Dead shows while giggling with glee or feeling that ache in my heart
listening to Jerry's poetic guitar and sweet voice.

We are musicians not businessmen and have made good and bad decisions on our
journey. We do love and care about our community as you helped us make the
music. We could not have made this kind of music without you as you allowed
us to play "without a net". Your love, trust and patience made it possible
for us to try again the next show when we couldn't get that magic carpet off
the ground. Your concerns have been heard and I am sure are being
respectfully addressed.
- Phil

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Poster: tad449 Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Thanx Phil - I'll see ya in Boston on the 1st:)

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Poster: psyched Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I love it! McNally says the IA doesn't build community or represent Grateful Dead values, but

PHIL LESH USES IA as a resource to write his book!

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Poster: DanMan1961 Date: Nov 29, 2005 11:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

It's great the hear Phil's comments about the changes, especially since I already bought all their music on ALBUMS decades ago. You guys remember LP's and Albums??(for all you kids out there those are those big black flat things your Mom and Dad listened to, "prehistoric CD's" if you will). Still got 'em and listen to them too, with all the scratches and pops included. I'd hate to have to buy their songs again just to listen to them on my laptop, especially since they let us record them for free to begin with. Can't wait to hear the other surviving member's comments!

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:19am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Great to hear from Phil, and that he enjoyed using the Archive!

Couldn't help but notice a major discrepency between McNally's and Phils statements:

In NY Times McNally stated: “Eventually, it was the band's conclusion, after a long discussion with them, to request that they change their policies"

While Phil says “I was not part of this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be pulled.”

Someone is lying and my guess is the GDP's paid spokesman.
We all know he lied about the reason for pulling the shows
('community' 'Grateful Dead Values') so why not go ahead and lie about the decision making process as well.

Someone must think we are REALLY stupid.

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Poster: 3roin stones Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

What a relief to hear from our beloved Phil-I just knew in my heart that he could'nt have been in on this travesty.
I also would like to know who McNally was speaking for if Phil was left out of it.Barlow names the drummers and of course Koons had to be in on it. Where's Bobby?

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Poster: 3roin stones Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

What a relief to hear from our beloved Phil-I just knew in my heart that he could'nt have been in on this travesty.
I also would like to know who McNally was speaking for if Phil was left out of it.Barlow names the drummers and of course Koons had to be in on it. Where's Bobby?

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Poster: HopOttin Date: Nov 30, 2005 5:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

About the implicating of the drummers, maybe that was another mixed metaphore by Barlow. Hydra is up on the Archive and that's Mikey Hart right?

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Poster: ocomik Date: Nov 30, 2005 2:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I'm glad to see the intelligent dissenting voices but also saddened by those comments that are more barbed feeling that somehow they've been wronged.

The simple fact, whether you agree or not, is that there are individuals (entities?) that hold the rights to the Grateful Dead Music library and as such can do with it as they please. For over thirty years this content has been available in multiple forms of distribution and we've been able to treat it as our own.

At least for now that no longer appears to be the case. I for one find it to be not just a bad business decision but a bad "community" decision. The true value of the Grateful Dead library is not a monetary one but instead is a living, breathing, testament to the creative human spirit.

The dollars that will be derived by those who have made this decision will pale in comparison to the loss of this music to the global community.

I for one know that some of the decision makers believe in the ability to change human consciousness and stood on the forefront as they watched it happen during the sixties.

In much the same way, the Internet has brought about a similar change with pioneers like Brewster Kahle leading the charge. How is what was being done back in the 60's so much different than what the Internet has brought about today? I for one fail to see the contrast.

Have the ideologies of the Grateful Dead organization changed such that you can no longer see the whole picture? Have the philosophies that you preached not been a positive testimony to the power of your original message? Ultimately, the decision to restore the Dead's music to the LMA resides with them. I only hope that they at least consider the bigger picture.

When it's all said and done to many this will come down to just music. For others, it's much bigger and encompasses facets that have been ingrained into our lives. For me, I find myself in the later camp. I want generations to have access to a Internet Archive that can tell the story of the Grateful Dead. Without it, at least in my opinion, it will not be complete.

Namaste

Michael OConnor, Editor
TheMusicNeverStopped.net

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Poster: aikox2 Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I can't imagine how you could have had no knowledge of this prior to its happening; how can decisions of this importance involving your musical legacy and the most important piece of our musical heritage be left in the hands of others to be handled so inappropriately?

Nice sentiment, Phil, but is it too late to restore things to the way they were? I don't just mean restoring the good faith of the fans; that will take time.

Can the shows be restored to the archive, or are contracts already signed that have screwed us, and ultimatley the signatores to those contracts? This was surely a piss-poor business decision; we will not spend more money based on this new model, but less. I think the suits have pissed off the wrong fans. They seem to have overlooked that we already have the archive. The suits seem to need our money; we don't need anything from them! The LMA was a wonderful resource and made it much easier to access the shows, but we traded before there was an internet, and we will continue to trade after. Think Fahrenheit 451, only the fans become the shows, not the books.

It really comes down to whether the Band wants to encourage the speading of their great musical legacy or hinder it, but shared it will be.

Music cannot be contained, and only a fool, a music business exec., a lawyer or similar black-hearted evil soul would even try!

I don't know if the archive can be restored now that ill-conceived contracts that have been entered into, but I hope that no one is going to be so stupid as to try and stop the online trading community and the bit torrent sites; that will cause a rift the likes of which have never been seen!

Hear that whirring sound? That's Jerry spinning in his grave :o(

Disappointed,
Scott (aka Aiko)

---<---<---@

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Poster: D Kent Date: Nov 30, 2005 5:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I couldn't agree with you more, Scott.

And, I am totally frustrated about it. Having come to the GD music late, I have been looking for a place to obtain taped concerts. I was totally unaware of this site until the recent furor....and now I am locked out. Unbelievably bad bummer for me....

I support both sources. I have all the music that can be officially bought. I would have loved to have had access to the taped material.

My current state of mind is to not purchase anything else from the corporate mud-heads. They can sit and spin on the tapes for all I care now.

Incredibly poor decision made here. And, someone is certainly being disengenuous if we are to believe key band members were not involved in the decision.

Man....I was this CLOSE to nirvana and never knew it....my bad (as my kids would say).

I would ask you all for other online sources for the material, but the thought police and the corporate mud-heads are probably scanning now and would jump in a heartbeat to shut down any sites mentioned hereafter....

Did I mention I was totally bummed out?

Best regards to all real Deadheads out there,

Darrel
Denver, CO

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Poster: Cosmicharley Date: Nov 30, 2005 5:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

When Phil got his new liver, I made sure my family knew mine was up for grabs. Now I feel like I just got a big heart transplant from him as well.

Thanks for the words from Phil

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Poster: kcjibberjabber Date: Nov 30, 2005 6:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

the question arises, "who in charge here?". Phil did'nt know about the shows being pulled? then who did? mcnally? bobby? the infamous drummers? all of em'?
jerry said when cher used a jem of his in a commercial [ responding to the backlash], " fuck em if they cant take a joke. I can sell anything I want even ifs its my own aSS."
well remeber something fellas( Phil, Bobby,Mickey,Billy ) that unless you start paying attention to who is in charge of this music legacy, who will? hell even the great prankster himself said he thought [the band] would "... protect this music with their lives, cause the dead's a bunch of warriors, thats what they are....." ( teid died - the movie, interveiw with K.Kesey)
Boycott em right away? I say headies everywhere, give the boys a month to sort this stuff out. In the mean while,
trade away
But seriously fellas no more bs, give us a tangible reason as to whats up. we'll prolly still love ya.......
www.geocities.com/boogiesessions/page.html
peace
ps, newbies are welcome & so are b/p's

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Poster: smagnolia Date: Nov 29, 2005 10:45pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Where was this published? I can't find the source. Just curious, not in any way doubting it's validity.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 29, 2005 10:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

phillesh.net

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 30, 2005 2:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: where's the rest of the band

kinda strange that one of the founding members isnt even clued in on what was happening here. there must be a lot of dislike amongst the remaining members for phil to not be included in the decision process. this statement should've been from the whole band not one individual...they dont seem to be eye to eye on this and hopefully phil can talk some sense into them ,that's if they are even talkin' to each other.

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Poster: Carlo Marx Date: Nov 30, 2005 3:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: where's the rest of the band

Phil Lesh is a good guy without question, and a fine writer who wonderfully expressed the value of the music and the community.

However, upon further review, there's a lot Phil did NOT say:

1 The decision to pull the shows off the Archive was a mistake.
2 I will do everything I can to reverse the decision.
3 The Grateful Dead legacy, the music, should be free to all.
4 Let me call those bad boy drummers and get this straightened out.

Sadly, Phil implies he has little influence or even contact with the guys he spent so many years with.

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Nov 30, 2005 11:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: where's the rest of the band

"WYOMING'S ESTIMATED PROPHET"

Look for this headline in your search engine. John Perry Barlow told his local Jackson Hole newspaper; that Bob Weir and Phil Lesh weren't (aren't) even on speaking terms last Summer. There would be no 40th Anniversary shows. He couldn't picture them on a stage at the same time.

Phil didn't show up at the "Comes A Time" Jerry Garcia tribute in September either. Bad blood, not unlike the two seperate New Years celebrations a few years ago in Oakland?

Barlow is angry. Phil isn't happy either. Robrt Hunter continues to offer free copies of his Jack-O-Roses album and links to live music downloads on his webpage.

Before long we will know who is a sell out and what fascist corporation owns the GRATEFUL DEAD? The BEATLES and their heirs no longer own those copyrights either...

This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2005-11-30 19:02:22

This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2005-11-30 19:03:58

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Poster: Wichita Date: Nov 30, 2005 3:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Thanks for your comments Phil. This smells like Debbie Koons and Bob Weir to me. It certainly would be a shame to sell the Vault Material to I Tunes or Warner. Certainly the Dead members would be paid royally, but the fans would then be forced to pay a fee for shows from Corportions that don't care about the fans. Talk about a sell out.

I would love to see Debbie Koons evidence that the LMA ate into sales of the Vault releases.

Well there will always be trading within the Dead community. There's nothing her royal highness, Debbie Koons can do about that.

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Poster: jcgiro Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I'm glad to see someone from the dead speakout. Now we need to see if he has any pull to put the music back. Lets all hope.

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Poster: GDTRF-REAL-F'N-B Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Thanks, Phil -- we all needed your words right now.

And for the rest of us, let's try and channel the anger and devote our efforts to a positive change here. I know that a compromise can be reached here ... we are a "community," whether we meet here or somewhere similar in cyberspace.

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Poster: laptaper Date: Nov 30, 2005 1:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Phil,

That was such an amazing statement, so filled with love and respect, so much the antithesis of the cloak and dagger we've been getting. I'm sure you must be feeling a bit back-doored too in all this. Please rest assured that whatever decision you and the boys end up making, as long as it's done with the openness, honesty and respect that you've shown, the Deadhead community will back it. We may not necessarily like it, but we will certainly respect it.

P.S. I was listening today to one of the gems of the archive, 6/10/73 - the Dark Star jam with you taking the bass places I've never heard before, then Jerry tripping with my mind; by the time I knew where I was, I realized I'd left my spacesuit at home. :-)

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Poster: phl7@cornell.edu Date: Nov 30, 2005 3:59am
Forum: etree Subject: GD SBDs are being uploaded!

By the way, the underground trading network is in full swing at:

http://www.walstib.org/

SBDs are being uploaded as I write this...

How many more drums/congas/djembes/whistles/bells/playable skulls does Mickey Hart need?

Keep on keeping on.

Pete

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Poster: estimatedeyes77 Date: Nov 30, 2005 2:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I have so much respect for Phil right now. I want to thank him for speaking out. It's good to know there is someone up there that we can still trust. Thats all I needed to know. My heart is at ease today.

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Poster: huxley Date: Nov 29, 2005 10:34pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

What a wonderful statement, I hope the powers that be agree with you Phil and give us your music back. In the meantime perhaps you could mention to the fellows at GDP that I would be suprised if any additional revenue would be made off music traders. We have had the honor of recording and trading your music for so long, that we will continue doing it with or without the archive's help. In the meantime, I would suggest if they really need to improve the bottom line, a full scale "The Dead" tour. Or if that is not possible maybe some more DVD's. These are two things that I look forward to paying for and don't already have. As always thank you for all the amazing memories.

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Poster: Bugz Date: Nov 29, 2005 11:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

where is the Dennis McNally statement? I haven't seen that yet Any help out there?

Nice words Phil - I'm sure you will do what you can to at least get the audience recordings back up - I don't think the majority of the heads can really object to the SBD's being reserved top preserve the GD income stream.

At least, I hope not.

Besides, we have 'em all anyway -

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Poster: Salt Lake City Library Boy Date: Nov 29, 2005 11:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I have not heard of a McNally statement, but he did speak to the New York Times:

http://deadnews.blogspot.com/2005/11/ny-times-reports-on-web-crackdown.html

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Poster: gckeller Date: Nov 30, 2005 2:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I really wish i had read this earlier. I was at a Pens game last night in the 'Burgh and saw the Phil show letting out and yelled "Boycott Phil!". Well, that was a mistake. I was literally mobbed by about 30 hippies with balloons and had the living crap kicked out of me.

Damn hippies! All about peace when it comes to Iraq, but they'll be the first to throw punches when it comes to someone making a statement about what they believe in. Anyways, I realize this morning that I was wrong given Phil's response, but that wasn't known last night. What's up with these people. Yeah, i'm talkin' to you.

That's just wrong. Phil, what's up with you attracting this type o' crowd nowadays? What ever happened to the good ole days of fun and freedom (of free speech)?

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Poster: Dont_ez Date: Nov 30, 2005 9:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Statement

[snip confusion about post quoted from phillesh.net -mod]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-30 17:49:13

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Poster: General Michail Illarionovich Kutuzov Date: Nov 30, 2005 10:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Germane Issue--where do we get the stuff now?

The AUD files are back. Which is the very least one could possibly expect.

For me the biggest issue is not so much the FREE vs. PAY Debate. Sure this is important. But far more important is the AVAILABILITY of ALL POSSIBLE SHOWS.

How lame would it have been over the years if we had to rely only on Dick's Picks and the full HALF DOZEN+1 Download Series for live music. It would be an unacceptable situation and many of us would not be as attached the GD as we are today.

I have been annoyed since DAY 1 that most Dick Picks are not true shows---but cobbled together compilations that both manage to leave off songs and repeat songs within 3 or 4 disks! I noted that GD Download Series 7 fell into this same trap.

Perhaps I speak only for myself--but I like to listen to wide array of shows from every year available. Sure certain years are uber-cool--but I have a copy of everyshow I went to and enjoy these greatly.

There is too much disconnect when a panel or an individual not only Cherry Picks a hand full of shows from THOUSANDS AVAILABLE but also has the power to arbitrarily edit the set lists and leave off songs.

If the entire Grateful Dead catalogue is digitized I will be ecstastic and fully understand that the overhead for such a project might require a nominal fee per song. But if it is no more than a glorified archive.org with fees. I will be disillusioned indeed.

For GDM to simply remove EVERY SHOW SBD and AUD without providing any other means to access this information is simply a counter-intuitive plunge. A desperate and pathetic stunt to drum up 2005 sales perhaps.

More important is that it is a step towards the dark ages. The genie has been let out of the bottle. We are all aware that there are thousands of simply amazing Grateful Dead shows and 40 odd releases over 10 years--or even 100 is not enough. The fact that so much of this was freely available makes their current policy untenable and counterproductive.

Of course we can get back to trading sound board CDs if this ban continues. And I will be the first to sign up and happily fulfill anynumber of trades. I am one of the people with 'gigabites' mentioned in the New York times--although I sure as sh-t wish I had 35 more!

SO where do we turn when it all dries up? How can we pick some random show from 1986--just for kicks and enjoy every second. I cannot imagine too many people on this site will remain beholden to the discretion of the archivists and their paltry efforts to date.

It was the very quality of these soundboards and those beautiful souls who made them available digitally who scared some executives. They were obviously the real target. AUD tapes cannot compete with these recordings. Perhaps they thought of the cash cow available if every show downloaded for free was rang up 15 bucks in their coffers.

What they failed to consider was how exceedingly foolish it is to kill the Golden Goose.

Jerry Garcia passed away a decade ago. The reason for the continuing growth and vitality of the scene is the availability of these shows. Especially the 1970s SOUNDBOARDS! The Grateful Dead would not have had such a widespread appeal without this massive dissemination of concert audio over the last 30 years.

We weren't showing up in droves to hear studio cuts. And the marketed Live Dead stuff was minimal before 1995. So rather than shut archive.org down in a petulant fit of profiteering---perhaps they should sit back and rejoice the fact that their model of free distribution of concert audio spread the good word and made thousands of converts around the globe.

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Poster: Carlo Marx Date: Nov 30, 2005 1:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

"I was not part of this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be pulled."

This might be the saddest thing we've heard yet. Phil Lesh completely out of the loop? Has it really come to that? McNally says there was a "long discussion", but Phil not even notified?

"Your concerns have been heard and I am sure are being respectfully addressed."

By whom? Not you, Phil?



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Poster: sadu77 Date: Nov 30, 2005 1:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Bite me Phil. Its the "Grateful Dead Machine" now. I was gonna go see him in Wallingford Ct on this tour but him and Mcnally can both kiss my ass. Thanks Phil. This was my promised land and you fucked me, us, everybody.

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Poster: Little Nemo Date: Nov 30, 2005 2:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

with that language and attitude directed toward Phil after what he said, you don't deserve to be called a Deadhead. I can only assume that you think Phil is lying, or you couldn't have said such a stupid thing. I don't think Phil is lying, and he will have my undying loyalty for beinng the only one (so far) to reach out to us, and to show he cares. See you for New Years Phil!

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Poster: sadu77 Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

listen guy. i cant tell you if youre a deadhead and you sure as heck cant tell me. just because i love a band and their music and worship every inch of tape they ever were recorded on doesnt mean that i have to believe or like what they do. I love Phil. i was always in the philzone. stage left. but do i believe that he didnt know about this? not really. my post was meant to be more humorous than anything. but more than Jerry Garcia died on August ninth. already bought my tickets for phil.

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

"Is dead.net going to become corporate?"
"Honey, it is corporate."
"Well then, corporate in a good sense?"
"Is there a good sense? Corporate is corporate."
Will we be encouraged to buy more merchandise?"
"Hate to tell you, but merchandising pays for the site and has done so from square one."
"I thought you owned DNC."
"There's a rumor that I paid for DNC's Web Ex program. I did once, at the beginning, to get it off the ground, but there have been lots of upgrades since, another due, but not out of my pocket."
"Will they actually sell more stuff because of the new format?"
"We'll see. Let's give our new overlords the benefit of the doubt unless they get in our hair."
"Yeah, as long as our forums aren't full of pop-up icons and Teen Beat copy, let them try it on."
"Try and stop 'em!"
"Is GDP like broke, or just greedy?"
"Little of both, I expect. You want a hamburger with your ketchup?"
"No, just fries."
"Remember, in the end, the forum is us. Sales is a whole different corridor. We've all done enough net surfing to have rewired out brains to filter out what doesn't interest us."
"Will it be better?"
"Of course not."
"Will we be better?"
"Just stay as sweet as you are."
"A New Era of Deaddom Emerges!"
"Ta-dum"
"Dumbed down Dead?"
"toke and pass."

got this from robert hunters web site

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Poster: S Travers Date: Nov 29, 2005 10:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Wow Phil,
Great to hear you feel that way. You guy's are such a big part of the history of rock and roll it's crazy. Really love the way you jam!! That's what I always loved about the Dead and you are there big time. Love your music and I for one will support you in any way I can. You are an amazing gifted musician! Long may you run.

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Poster: ncteacher Date: Nov 29, 2005 10:30pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I agree! It is a great relief to hear from an actual band member and to know that it isn't a band "conspiracy". I will enjoy Phil's up-cooming show at the Fox in Atlanta even more, knowing my faith in Phil is genuine. May the Music never stop!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 29, 2005 10:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

I just knew in my heart that Phil wasn't a part of this (or was atleast outvoted). Keep jammin' Phil - you certainly will have my support in your endeavors. Can't believe that "the powers" did not even address the band member(s) about this decision. Damn Phil, you are THE MAN!!

....and for the McDead Corporation to slam the LMA and completely throw them under the bus is so vile and repugnant!!! "not a community" ... bullf*ckinsh*t!!! I think i just might use my McNally book for kindling - fallen tree branches are far too precious in comparison.

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Poster: ncteacher Date: Nov 29, 2005 10:34pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Hey Dire -
Anger is destructive - I understand and share that feeling, but trust in the yin-yang of "they'll get what they deserve". No doubt Debra is the greedy force at work, but she never added anything to the positive anyway. Besides, McNally's trying to be a publicist and put spin onto a piss-poor situation. Give him some latitude - his book was really good - almost as good as Phil's. Keep the faith - and listen to some of that awesome stuff we have already have personally archived...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 29, 2005 10:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

it was not truly anger - more like utter disgust (and having a phd in english literature, i could never truly burn a book) - however, i will not give McNally latitude in trying to "put a spin" on the situation. You don't throw people "under the bus" just to put a spin. He gave a backhanded slap to the LMA and the rest of us fans on this site.

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Poster: ncteacher Date: Nov 29, 2005 11:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Dire -
I can't disagree - you outrank my BA in English by two degrees! My many years on the bus just makes me cautious about leveling vitriol at anyone within our community. Some of the more hateful postings I've read seem more destructive to our community than what Debra (or GDM) could ever do. I know you and I are on the same side - literature study gives us so much.....perspective, right?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 29, 2005 11:14pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Just need a quick shot of vitriol to calm my nerves :)
I agree wholeheartedly that many posts (probably even a couple of my own) are more destructive than constructive. My getting carried away by emotion does not alleviate the "fault" in my posts. Ive had many years on the bus too and just felt like our "community" had been attacked from within. My own "verbal vitriolic vomit" was only a quick defense mechanism. (my mental perspective can often get clouded by emotion - a personal weakness unfortunately). Thank you for your post :)

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Poster: wazzzup Date: Nov 30, 2005 3:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

First TOL FTP and now IMA!!?!!

What's next? GDM pairing up with Sony and the music industry to go after the bit torrent community in court for trading SBD's. They stuck their finger in the dyke of a dam that broke open years ago and there is no going back--- guess it is back to the underground for most of us.

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Nov 30, 2005 11:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

F*** SONY/BMG. This corrupt record company gave us tape recorders and blank tapes. They flooded the market with BETAMAX VCRs, over the objections of DISNEY and other copyright holders.

Next came the CD burners and blank discs. These hypocrites made it easier to make bootleg copies of their own music. That ripped off their own stable of artists and everybody else too. Any pirate can purchase a SONY "stand a lone" CD burner, which records albums six at a time. They cost about $1500.00 on line!

Now this record company sells us their 16x "dual layer" DVD burners at a cheap price. It's time to rent movies and make pirated DVDs, complete with the extras found on commercial releases.

The owners of a record company and Hollywood movie studio, are supplying the needs of the pirate community. They bi+ch about losing money. Their greedy lawyers file lawsuits against kids. It's worse that what John Barlow said in his statement.

SONY is the target of an even bigger boycott. They were caught lacing CDs with a DRM file that violated anti-spyware and privacy laws. And they're being sued by Barlow's EFF, Los Angeles County, the states of Texas and New York...

This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2005-11-30 19:22:58

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Poster: cuznt Date: Nov 29, 2005 11:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

This is just absurd. This is not a kind attitude. I could see pulling sbd's but the aud's belong to the community. Taking away what was given to the public. It is (unpolitically correct word here) INDIAN GIVING.

attention GD MERCH> we will not get stoned and forget about this one......

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Poster: GDTRF-REAL-F'N-B Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement

Thanks, Phil -- we all needed your words right now.

And for the rest of us, let's try and channel the anger and devote our efforts to a positive change here. I know that a compromise can be reached here ... we are a "community," whether we meet here or somewhere similar in cyberspace.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement: WAY TO GO PHIL!!!

Allright now. It seems that maybe our voices are being heard and some people are taking us seriously. Things are getting interesting and the cracks are beginning to show. First John Barlow and now Phil. It's nice to see him come down on the right side of the issue.
WAY TO GO, PHIL!!!

It appears that the battle lines are being drawn. From John Barlow's statement it seems we already know where the Drummers stand, so now it would be nice to hear Weir's take on this. Hopefully we will hear either way from him. I also have to believe that Hunter is on the right side from previous actions and statements. In a perverse way, this could be a fun thing to watch. I am anxiously awaiting the next shot to be fired.

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2005-11-30 08:14:30

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Poster: Ron2112 Date: Nov 29, 2005 11:29pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement: WAY TO GO PHIL!!!

Right....so here's how it seems to line up:

"Our" side:
Phil
Barlow
Hunter (?)

"Their" side:
Hart
Kreutzman
McNally

I'm starting to wonder if maybe we will see things back to normal here sooner rathe rthan later. Maybe Vince and Donna will get called in to cast the tie-breaking votes :)

Of course this all begs the question once again: if Phil didn't even know about all this who exactly were the "interested parties" who wanted LMA to pull the shows down? And exactly on who's behalf were they acting?

Peace,
Ron